Oki…let’s talk about faceball.

Well, actually lets not even talk about the faceball prototype yet..I’ll take a step back and talk about Danb’s ‘faceball’. When videos of faceball started to pop-up on planet vb ( http://www.youtube.com/user/VBNikoChanBattle (video isn’t the greatest)). Danb and I both wanted to bring this game to the masses. But, wet went about it two different ways. I went about ..trying to buy and release the prototype..and Danb (being smart) starting CODING the game. We were both doing these projects in secret. When I announced that I was going to release the prototype..without knowing it..i squared up and kicked Dan right in the groin. He returned the favor a few days ago when he released a demo of his game :). After promptly removing my testicle from my liver..I realized that it’s a good thing. Danb’s an incredible coder and he’s going to be taking his project in a slightly different direction. To show my support of his project..Dan now has a copy of the faceball prototype to help him in his development. While my faceball release will have more polish (as of now) and will be essentially stuck in the same ‘game’ mode (you go into a maze and kill stuff before they kill you). Dan’s will be totally open ended and I can’t wait to see where he goes with his project.

Now…the prototype faceball.

About me getting the game.

Some emails/Pm’s

Can I get the rom and play it ? -> yes I will release it in a few months for free

How much did you spend ? -> that’s private i spend 1X,xxx..that’s all you need to know. Please don’t guess/speculate at how much i spent…it’s private. It’s between me and who I bought it from.

Why did you spend so much ? -> vboy prototypes are expensive and rare. I wanted to. I knew I would lose money/my collection going into this

Can you send me the rom so i can play it ? ->no, I will release it in a few months for free

You lost your collection ? -> i kept most of my games. I sold my collection to pay for the prototype. I can’t write a check like that without getting shot by my wife..i’m in Kentucky..she can do it

Can you send me the rom so i can fiddle with it? -> dude..really ?

Who sold you the rom ? -> He’s Japanese. He’s name is private. He doesnt’ have any more. I didn’t get a rom. I got an official eprom board with the chips. I had to extract the rom.

I’d like to play the rom now..can you send it to me ? -> Sure, wait here..let me get my gun

Can I donate money ?..you’re a super good dude -> AHHZ see below

Donations/plans

Yea. I’d like to get some money back. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Most times people would run fundraisers to release the rom. And that’s cool. But, if people give me money..I’d like to give something back. Luckly I’m part of a team of people that started the process of releasing homebrew games on carts for people to enjoy. We’re going to use uncletusk’s website..and if you donate a min of 100 dollars. We’ll send you a cib copy of the prototype. We’re going to make you a manual..hand make a cart..and send it with a box and inserts.

The guys that are helping me out with this project were going to get a special edition of it for all of their hard work. Looks like I will be giving out (6) of these carts. When I mentioned this to people..they wanted some special edition carts also. SOOO..we’ll be making a limited number of ‘donators edition’ CIB copies. If you donate 200 dollars or more..we’ll send you this edition.

What’s special about this edition ?

It will be a smaller run. (confirmed)
The copies will be numbered (first 6 are taken for people working on this project). (confirmed)
There will have to be a pre-order/payment (chances are good..need to know how many to make)
There will be different artwork. (confirmed)
There will be a poster. (confirmed)
There will be a hintbook. (confirmed)
There will be a mini-disk with game music. (maybe)
These copies will be sent out before the others. (maybe)
There might be other stuff (good chance..i might be able to fit more in the box)
The (2) different copies will contain different roms. (confirmed) wait..What ??? *see below

About the prototype gameplay:

The game wasn’t finished. The ‘arena’ mode wasn’t done, but it’s selectable from the main menu. The main game you can say is done..maybe. It’s playable and fun..a bit to easy..running around a 3-d maze and shooting stuff is pretty freakin cool. The enemies are different from previous versions of the game. I’d like to see more enemies on each level and make it a bit harder..and more mazes. Right now you can sit down and finish the game in a night. There are typos and grammer stuff that’s wrong..and there’s a high score at the end that’s post as 123456789 (or something can’t remember).

I’ve given out copies of the game for people to playtest and work on. They can post more if they want.

Oh..and I said something about differnt roms…

It’s nice to have smart friends. Thunderstruck just finished up his ‘fishbone’ homebrew game..and he was on vacation. Wanted something to do..so off went the rom to him. BTW did I say he was smart ? He hasn’t had it long..but he can change mazes..change enemies (he found an additional one programmed in the rom that wasn’t in the game)..change enemy behaviors ect ect. He’ll prob start his own post today about his progress..but a level editor isn’t far off (I think). He’s done a great deal on the rom already..one of the editions we release will be his..and we’ll call it ‘Faceball: remastered’. I don’t post much..he can post more about it.

Which release will have what rom ? PUUH not sure yet.

Now..money….just to be open

yea 100 is a lot to donate for a game..but

For every 100 dollar donation..i have to get the game and mail it to you (well tusk does)..after all is said and done..i’ll actually get 45 dollars towards the release for every 100 dollar donation

For the 200 dollar donation (min)..I’ll prob wind up with 120 ish (?). Maybe I’ll auction a few of the numbered carts off on Nintendo age (great site btw)

My goal

If i don’t make a dime..rom will be released..lesson learned no hard feelings (from me..not the wife)
If i make 1k back..I’ll be fine..but my wife will be angry = sleeping on the couch prob.
If i make 3k back..I’ll be fine..wife will be disapointed = sleep in the bed, relations with the wife..prob..maybe
If i make 5k back..I’ll be fine..wife will be fine
If i make 7k back..I’ll be fine..wife and I will get a vacation this year
If i make 10k back..I’ll be amazed..wife will be amazed..I’ll take some money and do something for the vboy community..not sure what
If i make 50k..I’ll be dead..wife will get money and hide the gun in the lake (search the lake!!)

We’ll look to take donations and send out games in med Feb/early March (still working on artwork..need to make more carts ect ect)..maybe wait a month/month and a half then release all the roms i got.

Think i covered a lot..prob missed some stuff..

-Eric

Don’t email me asking for the rom..i can reload this gun fast

I would say that the $100 cart would be the standard rom and the $200 cart would be the remastered version. Thats just my guess though, just seems logical.

Why not consider the option of there simply being a single release version of Nikochan/Faceball which would include all of the nifty carbon based goodies (box, instructions, anything else) as well as the whole digital package (original version, remixed version, whatever else) on a single VB cart. Sell that for $150 and eliminate the confusion of the multiple versions as well as anyone making the mistake of buying the wrong version or missing out on the version that they wanted.

To fulfill on the apparent need for a limited/special edition – maybe simply individually-number the first 30 copies made or maybe give those first 30 a super neat shiny label representing the “special batch.”

I think what I am getting at is that the idea of different carbon-based goodies is neat (a special box, label, etc.) But I think that the special edition having exclusive digital content and the “regular version” having a different set of digital content is only going to confuse us. People will spend more time thinking about which one to buy rather than just pulling the trigger and buying it.

The problem is..this keeps on changing.

There was never a 2nd game 2 weeks ago. Thunderstruck wasn’t told ‘hey hack this and make a 2nd game’.

He was done with the homebrew game ‘fishbones’. He’s a great guy :). I wanted to do something for him..so I sent him faceball. He said he never tried to hack a rom..and it seemed interesting for him. So..he got some tools and started messing around.

I was thinking well hey..he might be able to fix some of the typos in the game (btw..not yet)..but no. He had to get all ‘smart’ n stuff. Change the walls..find out that he can change enemies and everything. Life sure is tough when you have smart friends :).

So, it wouldn’t be right for me to tell him..don’t tell anyone anything for 2 months.

The end result is that we’ll have two different roms. Now, we have to figure out what to do with them.

-Eric

Okonomiyaki wrote:
… as well as the whole digital package (original version, remixed version, whatever else) on a single VB cart.

I have no idea if this is technically possible. It is not like you can simply flash two VirtualBoy games on one card. I have never seen someone else doing this. If you know how to do something like this please share your knowledge.

Otherwise lets just wait for what the remastered edition turns out to be and then decide which versions sells how.

bigmak wrote:
He had to get all ‘smart’ n stuff. Change the walls..find out that he can change enemies and everything. Life sure is tough when you have smart friends :).

Actually, I think it is way easier to change the walls and stuff then fixing the typos.

[shenmueso]

this is all very exciting! a never before seen VB game that was intended for legit release?
you really have gone above and beyond in acquiring the prototype, but it really doesn’t sit well with me that some guy was holding on to it and then sold it for such a big amount. i mean unless that japanese guy was solely responsible for coding the entire game, it’s really not his to sell like that and is a pretty anti-gamer thing to do to hold on to it in secret, only releasing it for big bucks. Even if he was on the staff that worked on it, it wasn’t his money that financed it, it was nintendos. What would he have done with it if no one had stumped up the cash? and was he pimping it around to try and find a buyer? if no one else had ever offered the money, he would have had a worthless piece of plastic.

Anyone with a love for gaming wouldn’t do this, i expect he was a money man for nintendo and somehow got a hold of it.

anyway, that’s not a reflection on you bigmac, you’re a legend. now if only someone would come forward with dragon hopper. lol

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by shenmueso.

shenmueso wrote:
this is all very exciting! a never before seen VB game that was intended for legit release?
you really have gone above and beyond in acquiring the prototype, but it really doesn’t sit well with me that some guy was holding on to it and then sold it for such a big amount. i mean unless that japanese guy was solely responsible for coding the entire game, it’s really not his to sell like that and is a pretty anti-gamer thing to do to hold on to it in secret, only releasing it for big bucks. Even if he was on the staff that worked on it, it wasn’t his money that financed it, it was nintendos. What would he have done with it if no one had stumped up the cash? and was he pimping it around to try and find a buyer? if no one else had ever offered the money, he would have had a worthless piece of plastic.

Leaves a sour taste in the mouth imo, anyone with a love for gaming wouldn’t do this, i expext he was a money man for nintendo and somehow got a hold of it.

Well, you have to remember. Faceball was developed by BPS, which hasn’t done anything in about 20 years.

Hmm, Mr. G seemed like a nice guy. Unlike most prototype hoarders, he gave a lot of screenshots, level descriptions and video. I do wonder where he is now.

segagamer99 wrote:

shenmueso wrote:
this is all very exciting! a never before seen VB game that was intended for legit release?
you really have gone above and beyond in acquiring the prototype, but it really doesn’t sit well with me that some guy was holding on to it and then sold it for such a big amount. i mean unless that japanese guy was solely responsible for coding the entire game, it’s really not his to sell like that and is a pretty anti-gamer thing to do to hold on to it in secret, only releasing it for big bucks. Even if he was on the staff that worked on it, it wasn’t his money that financed it, it was nintendos. What would he have done with it if no one had stumped up the cash? and was he pimping it around to try and find a buyer? if no one else had ever offered the money, he would have had a worthless piece of plastic.

Leaves a sour taste in the mouth imo, anyone with a love for gaming wouldn’t do this, i expext he was a money man for nintendo and somehow got a hold of it.

Well, you have to remember. Faceball was developed by BPS, which hasn’t done anything in about 20 years.

Hmm, Mr. G seemed like a nice guy. Unlike most prototype hoarders, he gave a lot of screenshots, level descriptions and video. I do wonder where he is now.

Actually, Mr. G said that he doesn’t own the card but had the permission of the owner to publish pictures and videos. Thereby, I guess he wasn’t the one who sold the card but Mr. Gs friend. Maybe should call the original owner Mr. X.

thunderstruck wrote:

Maybe should call the original owner Mr. X.

Or better yet, one could call the original owner Mr. E… get it? 🙂

thunderstruck wrote:

Okonomiyaki wrote:
… as well as the whole digital package (original version, remixed version, whatever else) on a single VB cart.

I have no idea if this is technically possible. It is not like you can simply flash two VirtualBoy games on one card. I have never seen someone else doing this. If you know how to do something like this please share your knowledge.

Otherwise lets just wait for what the remastered edition turns out to be and then decide which versions sells how.

Sean Bean: ‘One does not simply flash 2 vb roms onto a single cart!’ 🙂

LOL; no, I do not know a method by which this would be done I was speaking from a vb layman’s pov. The unasked question that I was suggesting was that since (whomever it was, the super smart guy) figured out how to mess with the original rom in order to create the “remastered” version it stood as a possibility that they could somehow be merged in a single rom wrapper before being flashed? I know absolutely zero about the vb from a tech pov that would apply to how this would be done, so I’m assuming now that it simply can’t unless there’s a new cart developed that functions more like a GBA flash card (mult rom files), but I know the vb scene has leaned away from anything like that to date. Was just thinking out loud.

Regardless, I’ll stay tuned. Very interested in this.

This being Faceball which was a based off Midi Maze suggests that the game was seen by someone at BPS and then licensed to/by Nintendo/BPS for sale on GB then VB.

The educated thought would be that the team was only maybe two/three people and they handled not just the dev but also the business side. This is partially backed up by the info on the Wiki for MIDI Maze:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_Maze

The team are not Japanese going from the names. This would lead me to believe that the game was sub-licensed to another dev for console release. This is speculative as the wiki goes on to mention that the original devs (Xanth Software F/X) had a vision of coverting the Faceball formula to Game Boy early on.

Clarity needs to be established here. BPS published only. Quickly skipping through the wiki entries for BPS/Henk Rogers gives no indication that they had internal devs so I can only presume the development was either by a staffer at Xanth or it had been outsourced to someone for dev or to a larger company. Can anyone with an understanding clarify this information? Did BPS have internal devs on their payroll?

Again the source code of the game would be a derivative version from perhaps another source. The question is: What computer/console most fits the VB spec in terms of similar performance and chipset and also had a version of FB developed for it? This might give you clues as to the individual who developed it. (As a sidenote to this… Would it be sensible to assume that if there is a machine with a VB-esque spec, could that mean an easier process to make/dev for VB??)

The Wiki says that one person would handle a specific conversion… So the question is who handled the VB proto? Internal BPS/Outsourced/Xanth staff?

I would postulate two concepts:
The first is that BPS hired someone to cut the code from another version and the spruce it up 3D-style for VB. This would save money and give something saleable quickly as Faceball was doing good business on the various formats and it being simplistic 3D would give it an edge on VB I am sure.

The second is that one of the coders of the other versions simply ported over and rounded off/cleaned up a version they did for another console/computer… This, in fairness, is just speculation and really we cannot determine anything from the current info.

The gentleman/whomever released the pics and got permission for release of the proto must have some ‘love’ for collecting or gaming generally or why have something like that just laying around? Further if he had to ‘ask permission’ then this means that he is obviously ‘below’ the person involved in some way. The only logical solution is that he is a staffer and the person who has the rights is obviously ‘the boss’ or ‘high up’ type individual. Who knows? Personally its too ‘detective’ for me. I am just very pleased that FB is going to be released.

I apologise if this speculative post has missed some points. I just find the history of this quite interesting…

Fun fact: The rom header in the Faceball proto still says “V-Tetris” and has the same game id (VTRJ) as that game, which might suggest it was developed by the same team, or even built on the same pc/using V-Tetris as a framework 🙂

Okonomiyaki wrote:
I know absolutely zero about the vb from a tech pov […]

This might help. (-:

Whilst Bulletproof Software only published the Game Boy and SNES games, they did also develop games themselves (including V-Tetris), so I wouldn’t necessarily rule them out as the developers of the VB game.

However for the Game Gear colourised version of Faceball 2000 (the GB one) and the PC Engine Faceball, they were “licensed to Riverhill Soft”, so perhaps they were the developers for the VB entry.

Other thoughts:

– This is not a “spruced up” version of one of the other games. It does not resemble any of the others.
– It’s worth noting that all the games are different from each other, even though two of them (GB/SNES)were called “Faceball 2000”. The exception (as mentioned above) is that a colour version of the GB game was released for the Game Gear.
– The VB game is titled Nico-Chan Battle (ニコちゃんバトル) which is interesting as the previous games released in Japan used the English title on-screen. Packaging included Japanese but was again “Faceball” (フェイスボール).

DanB wrote:
Fun fact: The rom header in the Faceball proto still says “V-Tetris” and has the same game id (VTRJ) as that game, which might suggest it was developed by the same team, or even built on the same pc/using V-Tetris as a framework 🙂

OK forget Riverhill. Looks to me like BPS developed this one themselves.

Dave_ wrote:

a colour version of the GB game was released for the Game Gear.

Thanks for this info, Dave.

All of the Faceball excitement has caused me to want to get all of the different versions of Faceball for their original systems. I don’t own a Game Gear, however, and wasn’t aware that Faceball for it was simply the Game Boy version in color. Since that is the case, and all the levels and enemies are the same as the Game Boy version (which I already have and love) but everything is in color, I guess this will save me from buying both the Game Gear and Faceball for it.

I have no idea if this is technically possible. It is not like you can simply flash two VirtualBoy games on one card.

Both ROM’s together should be under 2MBytes. So, couldn’t you put in an option screen that lets you decide which version to run (when you first boot the cart) ?

MineStorm wrote:

I have no idea if this is technically possible. It is not like you can simply flash two VirtualBoy games on one card.

Both ROM’s together should be under 2MBytes. So, couldn’t you put in an option screen that lets you decide which version to run (when you first boot the cart) ?

I thought about that as well. I’m not sure if this would break the absolute addressing though… I guess someone smarter then may would have to do this.

DanB wrote:
Fun fact: The rom header in the Faceball proto still says “V-Tetris” and has the same game id (VTRJ) as that game, which might suggest it was developed by the same team, or even built on the same pc/using V-Tetris as a framework 🙂

I saw that as well. There is also some other stuff from V-Tetris like the credits left in the ROM. You can’t see it in the game but it is still there. I guess they reused the code base to have a faster start.

thunderstruck wrote:

Actually, Mr. G said that he doesn’t own the card but had the permission of the owner to publish pictures and videos. Thereby, I guess he wasn’t the one who sold the card but Mr. Gs friend. Maybe should call the original owner Mr. X.

It is fairly obvious to me that Mr. G. had permission to “advertise” the proto. I personally believe that selling the cart was always “their” intention.