Well… now that the compo is over, it seems that maybe this is a good time to discuss the possibility of pooling all our talent together and creating a single game. I know it wouldn’t be easy to do, but if we all could create manageable chunks, then “glue” them all together, we could have a fun, complete, and very playable game with commercial quality depth.
Back in the “classic” systems days (like the 2600), a single person could create an entire game… but even those were created by full time employees. For most of us, we have to work on this stuff in free time around work, school, family, etc. And while Pong for 2600 is somewhat impressive, on the VB it really just doesn’t cut it. The graphics, sound, and gameplay expectations are really much higher than older systems.
Some ideas of games that should possibly be made (popular, interesting, could work well on VB, and different from already available games):
Street Fighter style fighting game
RPG of some sort
FPS of some sort
Legend of Zelda
others?
There’s probably a lot more categories than this, but here’s a quick breakdown of a standard game, which could be independently done… by people with many different talents of differing levels (and not just coders):
code:
title screens, menus, intermissions
game engine (depending on game, probably has several categories)
-play controls/physics
-main gameplay
-boss gameplay
-other sub-gameplay
graphics engine
audio engine
misc algorithms
technical management (helping non-coders work within system limitations, getting data into correct format for code)
others?
RPG/Zelda could be cool. A fighter wouldn’t be my first choice as 2-Player is limited and that’s one of the biggest highlights of fighting games. I don’t care for FPSes but that’s a personal preference. Personally, I like platformers, but we already have a few of those on VB so I don’t know how popular that would be with everyone else. I always thought that an idea that could work well on VB would be a shooter that uses two joysticks, like Robotron:2084 or Bangai-O, but there are lots of options.
I’d love to help out depending on what the project was. It would be pretty cool to make something that could rightly be called the unofficial 23rd Virtual Boy game. I’m not much of an artist (and I’m really not much of a coder compared to some of you guys…) but I could probably handle some of the programming.
Also, one of the big non-coding jobs you forgot: level design. You can have the best engine in the world, but crappy level design will kill your game.
I think it’s a great idea. Depending on what kind of game we do, I might me able to do some programming, level design, and maybe even sound and music. (Well, at least I can try…)
Dont expect me to help out, sorry but I thought I might as well throw in some game ideas even if some of them might be very hard to do
Also many ideas might be weird but after all the NDS has loads of them and who said the vb has to have just action packed games, puzzles games and sport games
Also sorry if the list is long but atleast you get many ideas that can be done on the vb if people want to do it that is 😛
-lol: lack of love clone (yes the game on sega dreamcast)
-Dragonball (fighting game or rpg)
Dont really see goku from dragonball in a 1st person shooter killing aliens ^^
-City simulation
A mix between shenmue on sega dreamcast and the GTA series
A) You walk around town and can talk to people, steal cars and drive around
Maybe add missions or just points for the number of people you can kill with many different weapons and the likes
B) Just walk around the town and help others with normal things like taking old lady over road, help women carry heavy stuff, deliver mail to people… and you gain points
– A clone of the sega dreamcast game crazy taxi
-Other simulation games
A) Being lion in Africa trying to kill 1 of 10000 zebras to feed your family
B) Train simulation, you drive a train (yes there is a train simulation on sega dreamcast only released in Japan so not that boring as it sounds even if you cant kill people)
-Dead rising clone (but without taking photos)
Your in shopping mall killing zombies for points and can use any item you see
Example throw chairs, tables, CDS and the like
-Sport games
More realistic tennis game, football (be it american football or what the americans call soccer), ping pong/table tennis, olympic game (just like the olympics with swimming, running…), snow game (be it skiing, snowbording, ice skating…), realistic car racing game, volleyball, surfing on lava (Vb is red after all and if you fall you die :-P), poker/casino, domino….
-A simulation game where you teach people things
A) A video that plays on hardware that shows in detail how to make a vb game but that also has some kind of quiz, mini games and the likes to make it more interactive
B) Same as A but for learning languages
Well the ideas are endless if you think about it
More interactive games like sims, my little big planet and the likes could be made on the Vb I think if many people go together
After all the hunter vb game is very good and someone else works on making 40+ chars interactive, someone on sound… and it could work
rubengar wrote:
It’s a fantastic idea, if my capitan sevilla leave me some time, I can help with the graphics!
Yeah, I was really impressed with the graphics in your game… did you actually make them all yourself?
Fwirt wrote:
Also, one of the big non-coding jobs you forgot: level design. You can have the best engine in the world, but crappy level design will kill your game.
Heh, yep… on the way to work I was giving this some thought and realized that I forgot level design. Definitely an important one.
I’m glad to hear that (at least everyone who has commented) is supportive of the idea… anyone else have any comments? I’d like to get some more input and see how we can get this started.
Any old-timers want to chime in? 😉 RunnerPack, DanB, KR155E… any of you guys willing to help if we get this going? Did I lose you guys in the long boring post? How’s this: How about we all work together on a game! 🙂
Of course this is a long term project idea, so I’m not looking for commitments for help on it this weekend or anything… but selecting a game and getting a project plan together would certainly go a long way. And I know it’s one of these “if you build it, they will come” sorta things, so I’m willing to set up the logistics and take the first steps to show that this is a feasable project, but if it’s gonna get done, we’re gonna need as much help as possible. 🙂
But if some of you guys are keeping quiet because you don’t like the idea, but don’t want to be the “wet blanket”, that’d be nice to hear 😉 . If you just don’t think this project will ever get anywhere… don’t worry, this project is in such an early stage that I think the same thing. But I’d like to give it wings, or at least legs 😉 . If this can get some momentum, I think it really could be great.
Its a top idea, going to be tough to keep track of but with some organizing skills, (def not my department) i thinks its totally feasible.
To make a game with more flesh etc to it than a one man homebrew one would be a great thing (obviously i mean no disrespect for all homebrew one man game makers, its you who are the skillset here) At the wild end of speculation it could always be picked up by the big N and released on 3DSware, now that i would find amusing, Nintendos dark secret spawned a race of 3D game makers, just waiting for the opportunity to show the world how wrong they were to shun our red friend when finally they get into 3D.
But i digress….
I’m not sure how i could help, i can model & draw 3D but in trying get a 3D wireframe into the VB earlier this year fried my brain, but I would still like to have another go some time.
Deciding which idea to go for will be tough to please all involved, it could be worth thinking big for this project.
I really love this idea and would be happy to work on it now and then.
We’d definitely need a decent version control system. The question is, which do we choose? I only rented webspace on PVB’s server and don’t have access to the OS to install SVN for example (which is the only CVS I have worked with yet.) A PHP/MySQL solution would be nice, since a nice interface could be integrated into PVB when I have database layer access. The only one I could find (http://asvcs.com/) looks limited though. We’d at least need to be able to commit changes directly from our development environment (like Eclipse) right?
As for the possible type of community game, I’d love to see one of the following:
– Zelda
– Metroid
– Silent Hill (anyone ever played the SH2 demake?)
– Bangaioh
I never managed a bigger software project (did anyone here?), but I imagine that, in order to get the project started, we need someone (DogP?) to lead it all and write a basic engine upon others can build. We need a good abstration first, which will then help developers to work in the same direction.
While the engine is being written, non-developers could lay out a story, maps, dialogues, create graphic and sound assets. Eventually, we’d have to build the actual game upon the engine we developed using the assets and following the story and scripts created by our artists.
So, my favorite would be a Zelda game, but there already is one in development… Now, I don’t know what DanB’s plans for his Zelda game are, or how far he got, but this might be a good starting point, should he be willing to share his code. Dan? :->
I’ll still be busy with my own projects for a while, but sure, I could help with this too on the side. It’s a nice idea.
I’m planning to continue with my Zelda on my own, so I won’t be sharing that, but that doesn’t stop another Zelda from starting up and I could help writing parts of that too…
I’d be more interested in Metroid though, or a different game altogether 🙂
KR155E wrote:
As for the possible type of community game, I’d love to see one of the following:
– Zelda
– Metroid
– Silent Hill (anyone ever played the SH2 demake?)
– Bangaioh
I would rather do a game that isn’t based on copyrighted content. This way we would avoid legal trouble. Plus, it would give graphic designers, story writers, etc. more creative freedom.
I would rather do a game that isn’t based on copyrighted content. This way we would avoid legal trouble. Plus, it would give graphic designers, story writers, etc. more creative freedom.
HorvatM wrote:
I would rather do a game that isn’t based on copyrighted content. This way we would avoid legal trouble. Plus, it would give graphic designers, story writers, etc. more creative freedom.
Of course! Just copying existing IP isn’t all that fun. Plus, if you come up with your own ideas, you can better tailor them to fit this unique platform.
KR155E wrote:
As for the possible type of community game, I’d love to see one of the following:
– Zelda
– Metroid
– Silent Hill (anyone ever played the SH2 demake?)
– Bangaioh
I’m glad there’s someone else out there who likes Bangaioh! I think a game in that style would be amazing on VB.
KR155E wrote:
I never managed a bigger software project (did anyone here?), but I imagine that, in order to get the project started, we need someone (DogP?) to lead it all and write a basic engine upon others can build. We need a good abstration first, which will then help developers to work in the same direction.
While the engine is being written, non-developers could lay out a story, maps, dialogues, create graphic and sound assets. Eventually, we’d have to build the actual game upon the engine we developed using the assets and following the story and scripts created by our artists.
I think that we should divide writing the engine up between several people. Letting one person do all the work probably isn’t a great idea. Like DogP said, we should probably get something like a GitHub set up, assemble an engine programming team, and register the engine programmers as contributors. (Forgive me if my terminology is wrong, I’ve never used version control software.) Then we’d probably have to come up with a level format to work from, and write some kind of tool so that the community could contribute content. For graphics we have ViDE, although after working with it during the contest, I’ve found that it has some serious limitations and would like to write a better cross-platform VB tile editor. For music we might be able to use DanB’s midi converter…
At some point we should probably all get on IRC and hash out exactly what project we want to do, handle initial logistics, assemble teams, etc. Of course, the issue with that is that we’re all in different time zones… 😛
Sorry for being silent for so long, DogP. Similar to DanB, I’ll be working on what Fire-WSP and I were planning to submit for the compo, so that will probably come first, but I definitely want to help with this. I agree with practically every post, so far (*high-fives Fwirt for his platformer comment* ;-)). Specifically, I completely agree that the characters/story/etc. should be completely community created. There’s no reason to steal IP from any corporate entity, and many reasons not to. But, there’s no reason we can’t make a “Metroid/Metroidvania”, “Zelda”, “Mario”, or any other type of game, as long as the graphics, sound, music, levels, etc. are our own.
My main problem is: I can’t decide what type/genre of game I’d like to make most! One genre that hasn’t been mentioned yet (and one of my favorites) is the “inventory adventure” like King’s Quest, etc. I’ve always wanted to try and come up with an innovative control scheme for such a game that makes good use of the VB’s controller. It would also be a great way to show off lots of hand-made, 3-D graphics (I’ve already done some work on compression, so size shouldn’t be an issue). Can you imagine a game like Machinarium with fully stereoscopic graphics and animations?! Maybe we should start by having a community vote.
For the version control, I suggest either SourceForge or Google Code. They’re both feature-packed, completely free, and minimally restrictive (unlike github, for example, which I otherwise like for small, single-user projects). It’s too bad about PVB’s server not really supporting such a thing, but it’s probably better to have it separate, anyway. There’s also the “DropBox” system, but it’s more for file-sharing than version control. Also, we already have the forum to share and discuss small code snippets, sketches/test graphics, sound effects, etc. (although being able to properly edit posts again would sure help with managing stuff like that ;-)).
Well, I can’t think of anything else to mention right now, except that I can’t wait to see this project get off the ground!
Alright, great to hear more comments and still no naysayers 🙂 . I guess first steps would include deciding on a game, and getting the collaborative environment set up.
For deciding on a game, a vote would be nice, though we have to be realistic, as well as decide on something that would keep the interest of the people working on the game. Maybe we could take requests for game ideas from everyone, and then narrow that list down to games we could realistically make and that we’d be interested in making… then put that list out for vote.
For the collaborative environment… I like the idea of Google Code or Sourceforge… unfortunately, I haven’t hosted a project of my own on either one, though I don’t see any real downsides to either. From an interface point of view, I’d personally pick Google Code, but if anyone has any preferences/objections to one or the other, speak up… otherwise I’ll probably start setting up a project soon.
We’ll also need to work on creating a common set of libraries. Honestly, if nothing else comes from this project, completing this would be a truly great thing 🙂 .
I agree about not using copyrighted stuff, though of course our gameplay can be heavily based on ideas from existing games. I’ve personally been making “fan games” because I suck at graphics and sound, so at least by ripping off existing game GFX I can work on what I’m good at. Hopefully with this project we’ll have enough talent to do the full game without needing to rip that stuff off.
I don’t think we should count out a linked game yet… though I agree that a game should probably focus on 1P mode. In general handheld/portables are played 1P, since even with a cable, 2P requires two systems, a cable, two carts, etc… compared to something like NES/SNES which just requires a friend (though for some that may be the hardest part 😉 ). Don’t get your hopes up yet, but I am looking into getting link cables made 🙂 .
And yeah, I’m not expecting this to necessarily take priority over other projects (VB or otherwise), but sometimes one of us gets stuck, or lacks the skills to properly make certain parts on our own… but maybe someone else has a great idea how to do it, or has already done something similar and could make short work of that part.
I think we’ll need to start with baseline code, but not necessarily an engine. Hopefully, whatever game we choose will have enough elements that parts of the engine will be written by several people. But yes, there should be plenty for everyone to do at just about every stage of development.
About graphics and sound… we can come up with best practices for this. VIDE does have some annoyances, though we do have grit (slightly less user friendly, but more powerful). We don’t really have any good automatic sound converter, though we could probably come up with a document explaining possibilities… and maybe we could come up with a good format that’s both easy to create and play.
My personal preference on games… I really like platformers, like Megaman, Mario, etc… but we do have some of them already. I REALLY like Zelda style games, and I think this leaves a LOT to the imagination and definitely plenty for everyone to do (and who can say this doesn’t look beautiful: http://www.planetvb.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3200 ). It is a really big project though… certainly more difficult than many other types of games. I’m not really a fighting game fan, though I think coding one would be fun. I’ve never played Bangai-O, but it looks pretty cool. It looks to me like a quick grab and play for a few minutes kinda game though… doesn’t look to me like something I’d get sucked into. I’m not sure about the inventory adventure games… I used to play Kings Quest when I was younger, but I think I’d prefer something with a little more action. That would certainly be a project for the artists and game designers though 😉 .
I’ve always thought it would be cool to do a Virtual Boy themed game. The Virtual Boy itself could be the main character, just gotta make the stand into some legs (and maybe red beams of light shooting out of its eyes?). I’m sure this would be a game that everyone here would enjoy.
Beat ’em ups are also pretty fun IMO… games like the late 80’s/early 90’s Konami arcades (TMNT, Simpsons, etc), Battletoads, Streets of Rage, etc.
I wonder how a game like Rampage would hold up these days? I really liked that game as a kid, but I haven’t played it in many years. I don’t remember it really having a point except to keep pumping in quarters and smash stuff 😉 . It probably wouldn’t be that much fun in 1P mode.
VBSAM: A VB themed game could be cool… but that’s not really a game style… I mean we could make just about any game with a VB as the main character. Any specific style that you’re thinking of?
Does anyone else have any game ideas? I’d like to compile a list in the next couple days for comment.
Well, I don’t know about less work… The levels are procedurally generated, but there’s still graphics and music, and the class system and dungeon generation algorithms would take crazy amounts of planning and coding.
Right now, it seems like we have a lot of choices and good community support, but no real direction. I’ve been thinking it over, and in the past I’ve done some thinking about the kinds of VB games I’d personally like to see, and there’s one idea that sticks out in my mind. If I get some time in the next couple days, I’ll see if I can draw out a pencil/tablet and draw some diagrams that explain the mechanics that I think would be fun.
…Maybe the next PVB contest should be a game concept contest? 😛
Yeah, if you’ve got an idea for a game… definitely draw it out (or at least try to describe it). I agree about having no direction… that’s why I think we need to decide on a game style ASAP, so we can focus our actions toward one idea.
We could combine the best of different games. Imagine a Metroid style exploration based action adventure. Dark, moody artsy and scary like Silent Hill, immersive and with a good sense of loneliness. Featuring stereoscopic 3D backgrounds and background layers to move to like in VB Wario Land. The main character could be a robot, or a human in an exo suit, that can be updated with various items that the player finds hidden in the huge game world. Eventually the character will be able to fly around, and we’ll achieve gameplay similar to that of Bangaioh.
