😀

Project VBoot

e5frog wrote:
Unless you live alone there are always family matters, but what’s the hurry anyway? Last big project I worked on took about five years – that’s the timespan you have when just having a few hours per week to spend.

I think the biggest problem when working on something like this out in the open is that all the negative comments hit a lot harder than the positive comments lift – so you tend loose interest after a while and start to think that nobody really wants it…

There are always people that have comments, “you can’t route like that”, “why not use this and that”, “it looks bad”, “you’ll save $0.01 with this part instead” and so on…
But do we see them working on one – nope, if you suffer from perfectionism nothing ever gets done because it’s too much work to do it exactly right. So the people that have less of this and are more of “let’s do it”-people get it done and working (most of the time) even if it’s not according to every little rule the “know-betters” have learned on work, in school or at summer camp once 1989. 😉

Maybe you should skip it if it’s not fun anymore, do something more stimulating at least for a while. Getting a partner can help, you can take turns working on it. Trying to get something done that isn’t fun can really take you down.

Anyway, hope you do it – I will buy one if I can afford one, it would be very handy being to start the VB and choose any game instead of first having to hook it up to the PC and flash the cart. FlashBoy/FlashBoy Plus is the best thing out there now though and I’m glad to have one.

So what’s left to do? I’m sure there are people here willing to help if you divide it up in little parts.

If you make a list, what more have you planned to do? The hardware is done as far as a real prototype that needs some software to run, right?

You make some really good points, e5Frog, thanks.

If I keep going there is one aspect that I will probably need help with. I need someone or several people who is/are capable of developing VB homebrew using the current tools. I need to design a quick and dirty menu system that the VB will boot into. I need someone who knows how to use the save RAM in a game, and who knows a fair bit about the CPU, interrupts and the expansion area ROM. I was planning on doing this all myself, but the hardware and embedded software has proved to be a really big challenge by itself, so it may be necessary to bring someone in.

Cyberdyne wrote:
I’ve been away for quite some time and didn’t know about this project. But now I am back! 🙂
I have a FlashBoy+ but I would also buy a VBoot. It looks great so far.

Thanks. Awesome helmet in your avatar icon!

Thanks. Awesome helmet in your avatar icon!

Thank you! Just finished this project and pictures are already on the way to KR155E. You will get more information here on this webside soon.

Now I need your VBoot for this helmet to make it perfect! 😉

It’s been a few months, any updates?

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know I’m not dead! It’s been a long time but I have not given up on the project. Here is my latest update.

http://brennanthl.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/vbsd-update-03282012/

WOOT! Great to see you back working on this!

Sounds like it will be expensive, do you have any aim regarding the cost?

Sounds to me a Spartan-3 should be enough. Can’t you download an entire VIC-20 emulation in one of those? You’d need to know how of course, don’t have those skills myself, made a 8×8 multi color LED battleship game with sampled sound effects some years ago that’s about it.

e5frog wrote:
Sounds like it will be expensive, do you have any aim regarding the cost?

Sounds to me a Spartan-3 should be enough. Can’t you download an entire VIC-20 emulation in one of those? You’d need to know how of course, don’t have those skills myself, made a 8×8 multi color LED battleship game with sampled sound effects some years ago that’s about it.

Spartan-3’s require a fourth power plane at 2.5V for all the VCCAUX connections. I didn’t have enough board room or patience for 4 power planes and another regulator. The cost difference between 3 and 3A isn’t too bad and I agree that a Spartan 3A is total overkill but I’ve looked into other options already.

The cost won’t be too bad except for the SRAM, because 32M parallel SRAM’s are expensive parts. I could save 90% of the cost of the SRAM by switching to an SDRAM but that adds a lot of complexity because of random access schemes (to interface with the VB) and row/column refreshing and clock generation. Another option is to downgrade the SRAM to 16M. The part I’m using has a pin-compatible 16M version, so I may decide to use 16M to save $10 or so, and then implement the flash save RAM and VBSD menu in the FPGA in memory blocks.

Again, this is a prototype and after I get it working I might decide to switch out the RAM and use a cheaper part to save cost.

It’s great to see you working on this again.

As I said in the comment on your blog post, it’s great to have you back and working on VB stuff! :thumpup:

The new design looks great! I hope you can get costs down as much as possible, because I really want one!

RunnerPack wrote:
As I said in the comment on your blog post, it’s great to have you back and working on VB stuff! :thumpup:

The new design looks great! I hope you can get costs down as much as possible, because I really want one!

The biggest factor when it comes to cost is actually the PCB itself. If I can order the PCB in semi-large batches I will get a huge discount per board, and that will drive the cost way down. My goal is to make this similarly priced to the FlashBoy. My rule is that “if I wouldn’t buy it myself, it’s too expensive”. It’s definitely something that I will keep in my head as I work on the design. But first my goal is just to get it working, obviously.

Glad to see you’re working on it again!

It’s great to see you working on the VBoot cart again.

Here’s my first take on the Rev3 PCB. I will most likely end up making several/many changes to this before I order the next prototype, but this gives you an idea how massively complex this project is. This board was 100% hand routed on two layers from scratch. All SMD packages were also created and measured by me.

Attachments:

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   board.png
   

i am very happy to read that you are still working on this project.

cheers!

Looks promising, making all those footprints that aren’t in the library already is a real pain.

I wonder if there’s some central deposit for those things so you can upload and get other people’s stuff?

You should perhaps try and find some cheaper PCB manufacturer, I order from China when I build carts for the Fairchild Channel F and prototyping is done. Recent purchase was for 14 PCBs, plain double sided (basically cheapest alternative):

1) FRCJ01 2.28
2layers, 0.062″, FR4-TG130, 1oz, Lead Free HAL, GREEN SOLDER MASK, WHITE SILK SCREEN, Complex Shape, 3.50″ x 3.15″ Special Notes: Shipped As Individual Boards , Ship To Sweden
QTY: 14pcs USD11.817/pcs; Subtotal:USD165.44
Lead Time: 5 Business Day + 3 Business Days Shipping

I understand a four layer 0.032″ board will be a lot more expensive I just wanted to point out that there could be cheaper alternatives.

I work at a PCB factory in Sweden, we are however not cheap, it’s not impossible though I might be able to squeeze something like this in (one or two boards) at no other cost than the shipping price if there are other boards made with the same configuration (thickness, copper thickness, layers, material).

In my experience the shipping costs for various parts are what tends to make things more expensive, having a single supplier for all parts can be more economic than ordering from here and there even if the individual parts are cheaper.

Gideon is having trouble sourcing microSD card connectors in the same type that he has been using for the 1541U-II. Make sure you choose components that are available in the near future as well if you intend to do more than one batch (I guess it depends on how many is sold). 😉

e5frog wrote:
Looks promising, making all those footprints that aren’t in the library already is a real pain.

I wonder if there’s some central deposit for those things so you can upload and get other people’s stuff?

You should perhaps try and find some cheaper PCB manufacturer, I order from China when I build carts for the Fairchild Channel F and prototyping is done. Recent purchase was for 14 PCBs, plain double sided (basically cheapest alternative):

1) FRCJ01 2.28
2layers, 0.062″, FR4-TG130, 1oz, Lead Free HAL, GREEN SOLDER MASK, WHITE SILK SCREEN, Complex Shape, 3.50″ x 3.15″ Special Notes: Shipped As Individual Boards , Ship To Sweden
QTY: 14pcs USD11.817/pcs; Subtotal:USD165.44
Lead Time: 5 Business Day + 3 Business Days Shipping

I understand a four layer 0.032″ board will be a lot more expensive I just wanted to point out that there could be cheaper alternatives.

I work at a PCB factory in Sweden, we are however not cheap, it’s not impossible though I might be able to squeeze something like this in (one or two boards) at no other cost than the shipping price if there are other boards made with the same configuration (thickness, copper thickness, layers, material).

In my experience the shipping costs for various parts are what tends to make things more expensive, having a single supplier for all parts can be more economic than ordering from here and there even if the individual parts are cheaper.

Gideon is having trouble sourcing microSD card connectors in the same type that he has been using for the 1541U-II. Make sure you choose components that are available in the near future as well if you intend to do more than one batch (I guess it depends on how many is sold). 😉

Thanks for the tips. Luckily I planned ahead in order to make my PCB costs cheaper – just 2 layers, believe it or not! Hard to tell by looking at that mess.

I usually order my prototypes from BatchPCB. Their fab house does a good enough job and I can order just a few boards for the lowest cost I’ve seen. I don’t want to order 10+ boards for a prototype. But I’ll keep your advice in mind for the future.

I use MyROPCB. Cheap and good quality boards.

BTW have you found an off-the-shelf case for your cart ?

Make a mold and encase it in epoxy… 😉

I’d be happy to buy a naked PCB and transfer a connector and shell myself, there’s a lot of brand new V.L. Baseball carts out there.

I never got a reply from my contact in Thailand about making a cartridge shell. Perhaps some place where they make 3D prints will be an option if you want to make something brand new.

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sevensheaven

No clock to the FPGA? And no platform flash to configure the FPGA (or are you planning on the PIC to do that)?? and no JTAG to debug the FPGA?

Why not use a CPLD rather than FPGA? Don’t have to load those so it would be up and running right away.